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Which 8-DIMM RAM kit for P9X79 WS ?

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  • Which 8-DIMM RAM kit for P9X79 WS ?

    Hi, I'm new to the GSKILL TECH FORUM, but fairly experienced with computers.

    I'm building a quiet Workstation for Computer Aided Design, and I'll be using lots of memory with RAMdisk Plus (for Page and Temp files). Except for the memory, the main component selections are as follows:

    Board: ASUS PX79 WS (chosen for the PS/2 ports, passive VRM cooling)

    CPU: Intel Core-i7 3820 overclocked to 4.50 GHz (1.25 x 3.6 GHz) or 4.75 GHz (1.25 x 3.8 GHz) (whatever I can achieve at < 75 C load with < 1.4 V to the CPU)

    Cooler: Phanteks PH-TC14PE with three Thermalright TR-TY140 fans (running quietly)

    VGA: Sapphire Radeon HD 7970 OC 3GB or Toxic 6GB (possibly in 2x Crossfire)

    PSU: Seasonic 1000W Platinum

    Case: Lian-Li A70F Full Tower with Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans and AcoustiPack Ultimate

    SSD: OCZ Vertex 4 256GB, with highly over-provisioned spare area (for OS files)
    HDD: Western Digital RE4 2TB (RAID 1 pair) (for data and image files)

    Keyboard: Leopold Cherry MX Mechanical (PS/2)
    Mouse: Logitech Mouse M110 (PS/2)

    Two G.Skill Ripjaws Z memory kits with 8 DIMMS are being considered:

    8x4GB: F3-17000CL9Q2-32GBZH (9-11-10-28-2N), used at DDR3 2000 (1.25 x DDR3 1600), with a CR of 1N instead of 2N desired.

    8x8GB: F3-19200CL9Q2-64GBZHD (10-12-12-31-2N), used at DDR3 2333 (1.25 x DDR3 1866), with a CR of 1N instead of 2N desired.

    Q1: Are either or both kits compatible with the P9X79 WS ?

    Q2: If both, would one kit be significantly more compatible / easier to stabilize ?

    Q3: For each kit, is my desired 1N CR feasible at stock VDIMM (1.65 V) ?

    Q4: For each kit, what other voltage settings would you recommend ?

    Any guidance would be welcome Thanks !
    Last edited by Dr.Neale; 06-14-2012, 03:28 PM. Reason: typos

  • #2
    iF WANTING 64gb YOU WON'T WANT TO MIX TWO SETS, xmp WON'T WORK AND NO GUARANTEE THE TWO SETS WILL PLAY NICE TOGETHER, i'D LOOK AT THE rIPJAWS z SET YOU MENTION OR TAKE A LOOK TO TO F3-17000CL11Q2-64GBZLD, WHICH WILL WORK W/ YOUR MOBO, 1n MIGHT BE POSSIBLE AT 1866 WITH STOCK VOLTAGE AND A SLIGHT RISE IN MC VOLTAGE - Sorry for the all caps, just now looked and don't want to retype....sorry


    Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

    Tman

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    • #3
      Hi Tradesman,

      Thanks for the speedy response to the last part of my question, but I phrased the earlier parts poorly, causing a misunderstanding.

      I don't want to MIX the 32gb AND 64gb kits together, I would like to use EITHER the 32gb kit OR the 64gb kit, whichever one (best) works with my ASUS P9X79 WS mobo.

      1. Will the DDR3 2133 32gb G.Skill F3-17000CL9Q2-32GBZH kit work with my mobo ?
      If so, can I use it with CR = 1N (otherwise stock XMP timings) at DDR3 2000 and 1.65 V ?

      2. Will the DDR3 2400 64gb G.Skill F3-19200CL10Q2-64GBZHD kit work with my mobo ?
      If so, can I use it with CR = 1N (otherwise stock XMP timings) at DDR3 2333 and 1.65 V ?

      3. Finally, would one kit significantly "play nicer" with my mobo than the other kit ?

      Sorry for the misunderstanding, I hope my questions are now much clearer.
      Last edited by Dr.Neale; 06-14-2012, 07:20 PM. Reason: typos

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      • #4
        1. It will, yes, but instead I'd suggest a 4x8GB set - less sticks mean less stress on the MC, and you might well get 1N at 1.65 (poss 1.7), 1N even at 2000 might require the extra voltage, even with the stock timings, chances of 1N at 2000 with a 2133 set would be better with a 4x8GB set (again less stress w/ 4 sticks)
        2. Seriously doubt it at 2333, maybe at 2133, but belive may still need an increase in DRAM voltage (or possibly raising MC voltage some)
        3. More stress on the MC for 64GB obviously, opposed to 32 (even in 8X4GB, since both use 8 sticks thought the density is doubled w/ 64 opposed to 32 - if 32 or 64 then 32 in a 4x*GB would be my preferred option (which also allows the option to try and kick up to 64GB in the furure if your comfortable with setting up DRAM (most folks aren't), if not and thing towards 64 as a future option would just go straight to 64, that way you get a set with all sticks tested to play together and can use XMP if you like

        Let me know if not clear


        Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

        Tman

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        • #5
          Hi Tradesman,

          Other things being equal, I'd rather get the matched 8x8gb (64gb) kit right from the start, as you suggest, rather than get one 4x8gb (32gb) kit now and another "identical" 4x8gb (32gb) kit later, and "manually" try to make them work together. I'd buy the (much cheaper) 8x4gb (32gb) 8-DIMM kit only if the 8x8gb (64gb) kit wouldn't work in my mobo.

          I'm almost clear, but I still need to clarify my understanding of your answers:

          4. Answer 1. rephrased: At DDR3 2000 and 1.65 V, the 8x4gb (32gb) kit will definitely work at 2N (stock), but likely not at 1N. Correct ?

          5. Answer 2. rephrased: At DDR3 2333 and 1.65 V, the 8x8gb (64gb) kit will definitely work at 2N (stock) (my inference from your answer), but VERY likely not at 1N. Correct?

          6. Answer 3. rephrased: 4x8gb "plays much nicer" with the mobo than 8x4gb, and could in principle be expanded later to 8x8gb, but only by "setting up" two "identical" 4x8gb kits of RAM "manually". Correct ?

          Thank you for your patience. I simply want to get everything clear in my mind.

          Now, I have three more questions about the 8x8gb (64gb) F3-19200CL10Q2-64GBZHD kit:

          7. At DDR3 2000 and 1.65 V, will this kit work at 1N (otherwise stock) in my mobo ? (you said it might not work at DDR3 2133)

          8. At DDR3 2333 and 1.65 V, will this kit work at 2N (all stock timings) in my mobo ? (please confirm my earlier inference explicitly)

          9. Which would be faster: (7.) DDR3 2000 at 1N or (8.) DDR3 2333 at 2N ?

          (From your suggestion to go with the 64gb kit right from the start, I assume that it would work in my mobo, with the stock XMP timings, but I really need to be very, very sure before I plunk down a grand to order it.)

          Thanks in advance for your advice and guidance!
          Last edited by Dr.Neale; 06-14-2012, 09:30 PM. Reason: typos

          Comment


          • #6
            4. That would be my guess for reasons stated previously, but it's always possible
            5. My thought would be probably at 2133, doubtful at 2333 (besides if thinking 2333, would just go ahead and try 2400
            6. Correct, if your up to it, mixing sets like that means XMP won't work, so you'll have to set up timings, ADVANCED timings, and voltages manually
            7. Possibly, you can take 10 'identical' mobos and 10 'odentical' CPUs and you never know maybe all can, maybe only 1 can....I built 6-10 'identical' systems before and each time they will very here and there (voltages, timings, etc
            8. Maybe, though more likely at 2133 - (and not sure where 2333 is from - trying to run DRAM at a 'non-standard' freq can require some timings tweaking above and beyond, primarily because the BIOS won't really be able to help much
            9. 2333 at 2n easily, the bandwidth would far override the tighter 1N at 2000, at a at 2000 the diff between 1N and 2N would prob be a half GB or less, and the diff between 2000 and 2333 would be close to 1.3 - 1.6 GB


            Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

            Tman

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            • #7
              Hi Tradesman,

              Thanks for the info. Only one thing isn't clear: How strong a "Maybe" for Question 8, because you are in effect saying that the 64gb kit is NOT guaranteed to work at (even less than) its rated speed and timings in my ASUS P9X79 WS mobo !

              10. The 64gb kit is reported on NewEgg to work perfectly at DDR2400 in an ASUS P9X79 DELUXE, why not in an ASUS P9X79 WS ?

              11. At DDR3 2000 and 1.65 V, would the 64gb kit be sure to work at 2N (all stock timings) in my ASUS P9X79 WS mobo ?

              I'm using the 125 BCLK provided by the X79 chipset on the LGA 2011 ASUS P9X79 WS mobo, to allow the Intel Core-i7 3820 processor to overclock past the 4.3 GHz limit with a 100 BCLK (max 43x multiplier, 4 steps up from the stock 39x). I'm sure all this is very familiar to you.

              4.50 GHz = 36 x 125 MHz = 1.25 x 3.6 GHz (Vcore ~ 1.30 - 1.35 V)
              4.75 GHz = 38 x 125 MHz = 1.25 x 3.8 GHz (Vcore ~ 1.35 - 1.40 V)

              So the non-standard timings are simply standard DDR3 1866 and DDR3 1600, scaled up 1.25 x, because BCLK is raised from 100 to 125, so all standard RAM speeds are effectively increased by the ratio 125 : 100.

              DDR3 2333 = 1.25 x DDR3 1866
              DDR3 2000 = 1.25 x DDR3 1600

              That's the reason I detailed my CPU setup (including my cooling solution) in my original question.

              It's a royal pain to deal with, because G.Skill optimizes its DDR3 RAM for standard speed steps, so you have to sacrifice some potential RAM performance (e.g. DDR3 2333 vs DDR3 2400) for much higher CPU speed, which of course is the prime determinant of overall system performance for most tasks.
              Last edited by Dr.Neale; 06-14-2012, 10:35 PM. Reason: revisions

              Comment


              • #8
                Actually GSkill set the DRAM up for XMP and to run at it's advertised freq, when you change freq's it's more up to the BIOS to adjust the advanced timings (if needed) and voltages. I've built a number of X79 systems and while many are rated to 2400 DRAM, very few have been tested by the mobo makers to actually run AT 2400 - most test all sets of sticks at the SPD and mobo default settings which, with Intel, are normally at 1333 or 1600. IF the BIOS is tuned for the quantity and freq of the DRAM then ideally it will simply be a matter of enabling XMP and you're good to go.....I don't know if it is or isn't, though I've seen numerous problems here on the forums and from other consultants and builders I network with in getting a large number of X79 mobos to run 2400 sticks in large amounts, which is why I am trying to be a bit conservative, I don't like to recommend to people to go with something unless I'm relatively or positively certain it will work as I suggest (same way I work my business), I hate RMAs and dread suggesting something that might lead to one.

                As far as 1N or 2N, there is a slight performance increase in running at 1N.....but when you consider you might get a half dozen of the same mobos and quite possibly some might be able to run at 1N and others will require 2N at stock timings voltages, it's not something I would place a lot of emphasis on, especially not in the amounts of DRAM we are into, and while 1N might be preferable, doing so at high freqs can require higher voltages (and temps) than what I consider worthwhile.

                I try to help everyone I can and generally have a good idea of what can be done, but also try and consider that, your not down the street when I can run over and get my hands on the system, so again, it can at times be hard to make a definitive call, I'm even this way with some of my former students, employees, etc when they call with a problem.


                Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

                Tman

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                • #9
                  Hi Tradesman,

                  I've pretty much given up on 8x8gb, but thanks for suggesting F3-17000CL11Q2-64GBZLD, which is qualified on the ASUS P9X79 DELUXE. Because you said this kit will definitely work in my mobo, it would have ultimately been my best choice for a solid 8x8gb kit today.

                  (Right now, F3-19200CL10Q2-64GBZHD, which is reported on NewEgg to work great in an ASUS P9X79 DELUXE, is probably hit-or-miss, depending on the MC in your particular SB -E CPU, which is likely why you said "maybe" it would work. However, in the future, with an upgrade to an IB - E CPU, the improved MC might ultimately make it my best choice for a top 8x8gb kit in the long run.)

                  Instead, as you recommended, I'm going with a DDR3 2133 4x8gb kit: F3-2133C9Q-32GZH with 9-11-11-31-2N @ 1.60V, and try to get it to work at DDR3 2000 with 9-11-11-31-1N @ 1.65 V. It's also qualified on the ASUS P9X79 DELUXE.

                  So, in my ASUS P9X79 WS mobo:

                  1. Will it work at DDR3 2000 with 2N and 1.60 V? (i.e. with all settings at stock XMP)
                  2. Will it work at DDR3 2000 with 1N and 1.65 V? (with all other settings at stock XMP)

                  There's a recent review of this kit over at TweakTown: http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/469...iew/index.html
                  They overclock it to DDR3 2251 at stock XMP settiings on an ASUS R4E and rate it an Editor's Choice at 97%!

                  This DDR3 2133 4x8gb kit costs only a bit more than the DDR3 2133 8x4gb kit F3-17000CL9Q2-32GBZH you said will work in my mobo, and a lot less than the DDR3 2400 4x8gb kit F3-19200CL10Q-32GBZHD. (All three kits are qualified on the ASUS P9X79 DELUXE.)

                  And it matches the P9X79 color scheme!

                  Thanks in advance for all your help and expert advice. I'm learning!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Think I would say yes to both, dropping to 2000 should allow lower voltage at 2T and should be able to carry 1N at regular voltage (could even experiment with 1N at 1.63, 1.62 whatever....


                    Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

                    Tman

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