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Having chosen my CPU/Mobo/RAM/AIO (On a 5 year cycle) Upgrades after the 7800X3D reviews confirmed my expectations, to add to my already purchased Case, and my first full rebuild since 2013, in early April, the bracketed dates e.g. [2023-04-17] below are delivery dates
The store I usually use is Scan Computers, which is an online only store, with just one physical location. their warehouse/showroom which is only a few miles from my home, making collection the quickest way to get my ordered products.
[2022-11-20] Price £163.32 + VAT £32.66 = Total £195.98 – Fractal Design Torrent Black Tempered Glass Dark Tint
I decided to Pre-order the CPU on the 8th, with an expected delivery on 25th
[2023-04-17] Price £366.66 + VAT £ = Total £439.99 – AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
On the 9th I had settled on the rest, all with earlier expected arrival dates than the CPU
[2023-04-18] Price £549.99 + VAT £110.00 = Total £659.99 – Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Hero
Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 (See below)
Scan don't sell GSkill products, so I turned to Amazon UK, and got that via a 3rd party seller based in Manchester UK, and I live in the Greater Manchester region.
It was the RGB variant (NOT my preference), but GSkill's own site was listing the non RGB version out of stock with restock date unknown, which I took to mean not being made.
The RGB variant was £80 more, even in the GSkill listings, and I suspected "Paper Launch", at that point.
[2023-04-25] Price £406.56 + VAT £81.31 = Total £487.87 – 64GB (2x32GB) GSkill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 CL30-40-40-96 1.40V AMD EXPO – F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5NR
All was good when Scan told me my CPU was arriving a week early, except the AIO, was now Overdue, and when investigating the alternatives, saw that the 420 variant had an expected delivery date.
January, (Overdue), which did not instill confidence. So after finding an in-stock option on Amazon UK, the weirdness began.
Not with the cooler though, I ordered that on the 18th
[2023-04-23] Price £99.16 + VAT £19.83 = Total £118.99 – Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360
In the process I saw this pop up sold by Amazon US
[2023-04-21] Price £228.6 + Postage £8.89 + Import Fees £49.76 = Total £287.31 – 64GB (2x32GB) GSkill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 CL30-40-40-96 1.40V AMD EXPO – F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5N
£200 less (Plus no RGB crap FTW), and at that time even GSkill was selling this RAM for over £400 (Today I see it's £228).
Honestly if it wasn't Amazon US selling this, I'd have thought it a scam, and just kept RAM in hand.
It was being sold by Amazon US though so a refund of the RAM in hand for that sort of saving was a no brainer, but that's where things started to get weird.
Of course, I'm not dumb, with Refund authorisation, and importantly a Return Label to the Manchester, UK address in hand
When the Cooler, and cheaper RAM arrived a few days later, I started my rebuild.
This was a complete dismantling of a 10 year setup, with my huge 6ft corner unit desk big enough for three Monitors (a 32", and 2×27"), getting a full rewire (has extension holders/wiring paths underneath.
Of course the exploding CPUs, and Asus BIOS debacle would become big news mid rebuild, so waiting for a stable BIOS meant it was end of April, before I knew for sure my cheaper RAM was fine, and I posted the return. In the UK, there was a Bank Holiday (Something about an old privileged rich guy getting to wear the Empress' clothes) So Post Office suggested I chose Tuesday May 2nd for a Signed for delivery.
It cost £7.50 for a "Special Delivery", which means it must be signed for on receipt, and it was only a 20 mile trip to Manchester.
On 3rd May it was back, having been refused, which was the first real weirdness, not the last.
I now know that the original address is actually a PO Box, and "Registered Business Address", but I'm sure the Royal Mail didn't "Refuse to sign for the return", whoever went to the PO Box did, and this appears to be a one man business from my researching the company.
Note: I posted a photo of the refused package in the first direct message to the seller, and knew It would become a key part of my case, when It needed escalating to Amazon.
I already knew that I was going to have to get Amazon involved, but still the rest of the response was more weirdness.
The seller claimed to know nothing about it getting refused, but cordially sent a new "Return Label".
This was a picture posted in Amazon Messaging (which saved me the trouble), and when I checked via the order, it had also replaced the original label, again very weird, but yet another link in my evidence trail.
Amazon US, the very same site I had just saved £200 with, seemed suspect, but that theory doesn't work, store pages don't disappear just because they run out of stock, the £487 RAM I bought was the cheapest listed on Amazon at that time, and none of the No RGB variants were being sold anywhere I looked.
So I quickly discarded that idea, and left that on the back burner, later the reason for such weirdness would lead me to my current theory, but more evidence was needed, to bring it to the boil.
I had no real intention, of sending it to the US, but packaged it, and went to the Post Office to find out what it would cost (needs sizing/weighing), where I discovered a £25 postage, but only with £200 insurance, as Royal Mail don't control the entire delivery, an insured courier delivery would cost about £70.
I wasn't prepared to pay £25, never mind the insured price, return to seller means what it says, not send another country (Seller's Supplier I presumed?).
So I now contacted Amazon UK support, they said if the seller wanted me to send elsewhere, they must provide me with a paid label.
They would contact the seller, to instruct them to provide a paid return label.
I got no response from the seller, after giving more than enough time for a response, Amazon said at least 48 hours, so I gave it 4 days.
I could then instigate the Amazon A-Z Guarantee process, Amazon would investigate then make a decision in about 7 days.
I heard nothing, and had waited two weeks, so contacted Support again, they said the claim had been closed, but I had received no eMails, and had not closed it myself.
Still not got to the bottom of that one, and though annoying, I did not take my annoyance out on the person chatting with me, they were not to blame, just telling me "Computer said No".
They would reopen the case with the highest priority possible, which would fast track it, and it did that, as only a couple of days later, on 2nd of June I was awarded a full refund, but this was weird as well
Would like to return it? What are they saying, I have a choice?
I now had my refund, and was trying to return the RAM all through this extracted saga, but that goes against my ethical principles, even if it was somehow legal, certainly a line in such an eMail shouldn't be taken as any sort of permission.
On the 5th June I finally got the full refund in my account, so informed the seller of all the facts, and stipulated I would send it to a UK address, and it had to be signed for.
The seller yet again sent me the label above. Did they even read what I wrote?
I'd been extremely patient up to this point, but I had now run out of that patience, and I had both money, and RAM in hand, so had no need to tolerate this sort runaround a moment longer.
09-Jun-2023 16:05
The 1st thing I didn't expect was a very quick response, all the other responses took over 24 hours, so I only checked for that on the 10th.
The 2nd thing I didn't expect was the end of this saga, to be this.
09-Jun-2023 18:46
Not going to complain, though it was never my intention, it looks like I am keeping the RAM, so maybe Amazon knew something I didn't, but now I have been "gifted" the product, and have the evidence to prove that in writing,
In the end it seems churlish to leave a bad report about the seller, also having left the product with me, it could easily be spun, into a false narrative, and one my avatar might provoke for obvious reasons (It won't be the first time, so I made it MORE obvious, as I refuse to hide who I am) so not decided on that one yet.
Patience, and record keeping, while not letting it rest too long, I gave every step double the time stated, plus the initial delay in sending the Return immediately, was for my own benefit.
Instigating the refund process ASAP is the important part, as it's only starting the return/refund process that is time limited, once you have that return label, if you need to wait until payday to post it, you're covered within reason.
In my case, I had the money, but wanted to wait until I knew for certain that the much cheaper RAM was not a scam, Though very unlikely if buying direct from Amazon, it's not impossible.
My current working Hypothesis is the seller, can write of the cost of the product as a tax deduction, but not if they return it to their supplier.
Unless they can get their buyer (Me) to return it for them, and in doing so give them a false paper trail to hide the fact they got refunded as well.
Why wouldn't they just provide a paid return in the end?
Again that leaves a paper trail back to them, if they pay the return postage, it says they were responsible for that original purchase.
That's all speculation, though I can think of no other reason, based on the evidence
Not really a fan of Amazon, but at least the way they do this 3rd party sellers stuff keeps all communication via Amazon's message system, and you should make sure to post any evidence, on their website.
The chat messages are not immediately accessible, but Amazon does keep a record of those conversations. So if you have to use the courts, that's also evidence you can get at, but best to post your evidence in the messaging system, as you can more easily access that again.
All that took exactly 2 months, but the lesson is don't get mad, or impatient, document the process, and know your rights, and responsibilities, and stand up for them.
Long back story done, onto the questions I now have.
Question 1:
How to even register RAM I have paid for, and got refunded for by Amazon UK, only then to be gifted the RAM by the original seller, after all the above.
I did try the RAM, after someone suggested it might be fake, even though I was 99.9% sure it was legit, I did just throw it in, and wasn't even seeing the Q-code numbers light up, but the RGB was.
However on removal, my previously stable EXPO Tweaked BIOS settings failed to post, but with Q-Code back (No RGB obviously), and I had to reset to default BIOS, retrain the RAM with that, then reapply my EXPO Tweaked settings, retrain that, and all was good again.
Knowing, how important the memory training is with these AMD CPUs, especially on 1st use, I think I was being far too hasty, and suspect having one never Trained kit + one EXPO Tweaked one already was the actual reason for the initial problems, though a DOA stick can't be ruled out, so RMA may be needed.
I came here, and put it through the Serial Number Checker, and it passed that, and I'm more interested in using it than selling it, and I'm not ready to say it's got a serious problem, just yet.
Question 2: I am wondering if the mixing of RGB, and No RGB sticks (in the right alternate slots of course) will cause any issues.
Related, are their any issues with setting EXPO Tweaked for 4 sticks, I remember reading launch of 7000 Series posts, but took that to be early adopter woes, now fixed, but as I wasn't planning on getting 4 sticks, it didn't seem relevant back then.
I haven't actually registered either stick (Yet), and reading Serial Numbers of installed RAM is not really viable (I tried). So I will have to pull them to read it.
Suggestion: have a copy in the box, maybe on that black card, or a copy of the label stuck under the RAM Stick when packed.
That would be more useful to me than those silly RGB lights.
My PC's full Tech Specs Are posted on my Profile
A much upgraded 2013 New build, now on 3rd CPU, and GPU, 2nd case, Several storage additions, and size upgrades, but some original parts remain.
It's been a learning curve (and thus fun) switching to AM5 from a i7 8700k, and I started with a i7 3700k, and dual XFX Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition GPUs.
Hoping AMD can release their Chiplet potential with RDNA4, the die size scaling headroom (300%, against Nvidia's 10%) suggests they can, but such potential must be used not left on the shelf. Product released is the only thing that matters.
A nice "Short" post, to start with, (what you mean TLDR), I only gave you the edited highlights, this entire saga took 2 months to complete.
It was a lot longer to live through, but worth it, know your rights, and responsibilities, but above all keep the evidence, to prove your case.
The store I usually use is Scan Computers, which is an online only store, with just one physical location. their warehouse/showroom which is only a few miles from my home, making collection the quickest way to get my ordered products.
[2022-11-20] Price £163.32 + VAT £32.66 = Total £195.98 – Fractal Design Torrent Black Tempered Glass Dark Tint
I decided to Pre-order the CPU on the 8th, with an expected delivery on 25th
[2023-04-17] Price £366.66 + VAT £ = Total £439.99 – AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
On the 9th I had settled on the rest, all with earlier expected arrival dates than the CPU
[2023-04-18] Price £549.99 + VAT £110.00 = Total £659.99 – Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Hero
Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 (See below)
Scan don't sell GSkill products, so I turned to Amazon UK, and got that via a 3rd party seller based in Manchester UK, and I live in the Greater Manchester region.
It was the RGB variant (NOT my preference), but GSkill's own site was listing the non RGB version out of stock with restock date unknown, which I took to mean not being made.
The RGB variant was £80 more, even in the GSkill listings, and I suspected "Paper Launch", at that point.
[2023-04-25] Price £406.56 + VAT £81.31 = Total £487.87 – 64GB (2x32GB) GSkill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 CL30-40-40-96 1.40V AMD EXPO – F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5NR
All was good when Scan told me my CPU was arriving a week early, except the AIO, was now Overdue, and when investigating the alternatives, saw that the 420 variant had an expected delivery date.
January, (Overdue), which did not instill confidence. So after finding an in-stock option on Amazon UK, the weirdness began.
Not with the cooler though, I ordered that on the 18th
[2023-04-23] Price £99.16 + VAT £19.83 = Total £118.99 – Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360
In the process I saw this pop up sold by Amazon US
[2023-04-21] Price £228.6 + Postage £8.89 + Import Fees £49.76 = Total £287.31 – 64GB (2x32GB) GSkill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 CL30-40-40-96 1.40V AMD EXPO – F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5N
£200 less (Plus no RGB crap FTW), and at that time even GSkill was selling this RAM for over £400 (Today I see it's £228).
Honestly if it wasn't Amazon US selling this, I'd have thought it a scam, and just kept RAM in hand.
It was being sold by Amazon US though so a refund of the RAM in hand for that sort of saving was a no brainer, but that's where things started to get weird.
Of course, I'm not dumb, with Refund authorisation, and importantly a Return Label to the Manchester, UK address in hand
When the Cooler, and cheaper RAM arrived a few days later, I started my rebuild.
This was a complete dismantling of a 10 year setup, with my huge 6ft corner unit desk big enough for three Monitors (a 32", and 2×27"), getting a full rewire (has extension holders/wiring paths underneath.
Of course the exploding CPUs, and Asus BIOS debacle would become big news mid rebuild, so waiting for a stable BIOS meant it was end of April, before I knew for sure my cheaper RAM was fine, and I posted the return. In the UK, there was a Bank Holiday (Something about an old privileged rich guy getting to wear the Empress' clothes) So Post Office suggested I chose Tuesday May 2nd for a Signed for delivery.
It cost £7.50 for a "Special Delivery", which means it must be signed for on receipt, and it was only a 20 mile trip to Manchester.
On 3rd May it was back, having been refused, which was the first real weirdness, not the last.
I now know that the original address is actually a PO Box, and "Registered Business Address", but I'm sure the Royal Mail didn't "Refuse to sign for the return", whoever went to the PO Box did, and this appears to be a one man business from my researching the company.
Note: I posted a photo of the refused package in the first direct message to the seller, and knew It would become a key part of my case, when It needed escalating to Amazon.
I already knew that I was going to have to get Amazon involved, but still the rest of the response was more weirdness.
The seller claimed to know nothing about it getting refused, but cordially sent a new "Return Label".
This was a picture posted in Amazon Messaging (which saved me the trouble), and when I checked via the order, it had also replaced the original label, again very weird, but yet another link in my evidence trail.
Amazon US, the very same site I had just saved £200 with, seemed suspect, but that theory doesn't work, store pages don't disappear just because they run out of stock, the £487 RAM I bought was the cheapest listed on Amazon at that time, and none of the No RGB variants were being sold anywhere I looked.
So I quickly discarded that idea, and left that on the back burner, later the reason for such weirdness would lead me to my current theory, but more evidence was needed, to bring it to the boil.
I had no real intention, of sending it to the US, but packaged it, and went to the Post Office to find out what it would cost (needs sizing/weighing), where I discovered a £25 postage, but only with £200 insurance, as Royal Mail don't control the entire delivery, an insured courier delivery would cost about £70.
I wasn't prepared to pay £25, never mind the insured price, return to seller means what it says, not send another country (Seller's Supplier I presumed?).
So I now contacted Amazon UK support, they said if the seller wanted me to send elsewhere, they must provide me with a paid label.
They would contact the seller, to instruct them to provide a paid return label.
I got no response from the seller, after giving more than enough time for a response, Amazon said at least 48 hours, so I gave it 4 days.
I could then instigate the Amazon A-Z Guarantee process, Amazon would investigate then make a decision in about 7 days.
I heard nothing, and had waited two weeks, so contacted Support again, they said the claim had been closed, but I had received no eMails, and had not closed it myself.
Still not got to the bottom of that one, and though annoying, I did not take my annoyance out on the person chatting with me, they were not to blame, just telling me "Computer said No".
They would reopen the case with the highest priority possible, which would fast track it, and it did that, as only a couple of days later, on 2nd of June I was awarded a full refund, but this was weird as well
Claim decision on order [02/06/2023]
We have granted your claim, and issued you a refund to your original payment method.
If you are still in possession of the item(s) and would like to return it, please contact the seller to organize a return.
We have granted your claim, and issued you a refund to your original payment method.
If you are still in possession of the item(s) and would like to return it, please contact the seller to organize a return.
I now had my refund, and was trying to return the RAM all through this extracted saga, but that goes against my ethical principles, even if it was somehow legal, certainly a line in such an eMail shouldn't be taken as any sort of permission.
On the 5th June I finally got the full refund in my account, so informed the seller of all the facts, and stipulated I would send it to a UK address, and it had to be signed for.
The seller yet again sent me the label above. Did they even read what I wrote?
I'd been extremely patient up to this point, but I had now run out of that patience, and I had both money, and RAM in hand, so had no need to tolerate this sort runaround a moment longer.
09-Jun-2023 16:05
You're NOT being reasonable. This label is the cause of Amazon A-Z Guarantee being awarded to me without needing to return the product first.
Amazon Support told me they instructed you to provide paid for postage, after you did not respond, as advised, I started the A-Z Guarantee process. After a two Week period of investigating the case, I was awarded the full refund by Amazon UK.
No way am I sending it to the Amazon US Las Vegas, I DID NOT buy the product from Amazon US, and will NOT return it to what I can only assume is your own supplier, unless you provide a paid postage.
I bought the product from you, not Amazon US, and have no obligation to return it to anywhere except where I bought it from.
Further, as the evidence in this thread proves, I've already paid once to send it to your UK address, (using the original Return Label), and it was refused. Then suddenly it's switched to Las Vegas, THAT is the entire problem in the first place, It's just not acceptable.
Let me make it clear, I'm done playing nice, you either pay for the 2nd return (With Signed receipt if I'm posting it), or via a courier collection as Amazon have already stated you should, or it won't happen at all.
Amazon Support told me they instructed you to provide paid for postage, after you did not respond, as advised, I started the A-Z Guarantee process. After a two Week period of investigating the case, I was awarded the full refund by Amazon UK.
No way am I sending it to the Amazon US Las Vegas, I DID NOT buy the product from Amazon US, and will NOT return it to what I can only assume is your own supplier, unless you provide a paid postage.
I bought the product from you, not Amazon US, and have no obligation to return it to anywhere except where I bought it from.
Further, as the evidence in this thread proves, I've already paid once to send it to your UK address, (using the original Return Label), and it was refused. Then suddenly it's switched to Las Vegas, THAT is the entire problem in the first place, It's just not acceptable.
Let me make it clear, I'm done playing nice, you either pay for the 2nd return (With Signed receipt if I'm posting it), or via a courier collection as Amazon have already stated you should, or it won't happen at all.
The 2nd thing I didn't expect was the end of this saga, to be this.
09-Jun-2023 18:46
the product can stay with you
In the end it seems churlish to leave a bad report about the seller, also having left the product with me, it could easily be spun, into a false narrative, and one my avatar might provoke for obvious reasons (It won't be the first time, so I made it MORE obvious, as I refuse to hide who I am) so not decided on that one yet.
Patience, and record keeping, while not letting it rest too long, I gave every step double the time stated, plus the initial delay in sending the Return immediately, was for my own benefit.
Instigating the refund process ASAP is the important part, as it's only starting the return/refund process that is time limited, once you have that return label, if you need to wait until payday to post it, you're covered within reason.
In my case, I had the money, but wanted to wait until I knew for certain that the much cheaper RAM was not a scam, Though very unlikely if buying direct from Amazon, it's not impossible.
My current working Hypothesis is the seller, can write of the cost of the product as a tax deduction, but not if they return it to their supplier.
Unless they can get their buyer (Me) to return it for them, and in doing so give them a false paper trail to hide the fact they got refunded as well.
Why wouldn't they just provide a paid return in the end?
Again that leaves a paper trail back to them, if they pay the return postage, it says they were responsible for that original purchase.
That's all speculation, though I can think of no other reason, based on the evidence
Not really a fan of Amazon, but at least the way they do this 3rd party sellers stuff keeps all communication via Amazon's message system, and you should make sure to post any evidence, on their website.
The chat messages are not immediately accessible, but Amazon does keep a record of those conversations. So if you have to use the courts, that's also evidence you can get at, but best to post your evidence in the messaging system, as you can more easily access that again.
All that took exactly 2 months, but the lesson is don't get mad, or impatient, document the process, and know your rights, and responsibilities, and stand up for them.
Long back story done, onto the questions I now have.
Question 1:
How to even register RAM I have paid for, and got refunded for by Amazon UK, only then to be gifted the RAM by the original seller, after all the above.
I did try the RAM, after someone suggested it might be fake, even though I was 99.9% sure it was legit, I did just throw it in, and wasn't even seeing the Q-code numbers light up, but the RGB was.
However on removal, my previously stable EXPO Tweaked BIOS settings failed to post, but with Q-Code back (No RGB obviously), and I had to reset to default BIOS, retrain the RAM with that, then reapply my EXPO Tweaked settings, retrain that, and all was good again.
Knowing, how important the memory training is with these AMD CPUs, especially on 1st use, I think I was being far too hasty, and suspect having one never Trained kit + one EXPO Tweaked one already was the actual reason for the initial problems, though a DOA stick can't be ruled out, so RMA may be needed.
I came here, and put it through the Serial Number Checker, and it passed that, and I'm more interested in using it than selling it, and I'm not ready to say it's got a serious problem, just yet.
Question 2: I am wondering if the mixing of RGB, and No RGB sticks (in the right alternate slots of course) will cause any issues.
Related, are their any issues with setting EXPO Tweaked for 4 sticks, I remember reading launch of 7000 Series posts, but took that to be early adopter woes, now fixed, but as I wasn't planning on getting 4 sticks, it didn't seem relevant back then.
I haven't actually registered either stick (Yet), and reading Serial Numbers of installed RAM is not really viable (I tried). So I will have to pull them to read it.
Suggestion: have a copy in the box, maybe on that black card, or a copy of the label stuck under the RAM Stick when packed.
That would be more useful to me than those silly RGB lights.
My PC's full Tech Specs Are posted on my Profile
A much upgraded 2013 New build, now on 3rd CPU, and GPU, 2nd case, Several storage additions, and size upgrades, but some original parts remain.
It's been a learning curve (and thus fun) switching to AM5 from a i7 8700k, and I started with a i7 3700k, and dual XFX Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition GPUs.
Hoping AMD can release their Chiplet potential with RDNA4, the die size scaling headroom (300%, against Nvidia's 10%) suggests they can, but such potential must be used not left on the shelf. Product released is the only thing that matters.
A nice "Short" post, to start with, (what you mean TLDR), I only gave you the edited highlights, this entire saga took 2 months to complete.
It was a lot longer to live through, but worth it, know your rights, and responsibilities, but above all keep the evidence, to prove your case.
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