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F4-3200C14-16GTRG - Looking for pointers

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  • F4-3200C14-16GTRG - Looking for pointers

    RAM is: F4-3200C14-16GTRG (64gb / 4 sticks / 3200MHz CL14 XMP Trident Royal RGB)
    MOBO & CPU: AMD 5900x / MSI X570 ACE

    Hi guys!
    I just now noticed there is a community OCing section on this forum, and thats exciting to see!
    I sure would love to hear from others who have better experience than I do, with what I currently own.
    Owned the RAM for almost a year now, the Motherboard and CPU about 4 months
    I have basic RAM OCing knowledge from what I have wanted to search on the internet and the basic opinions people usually pass around on forums.
    This is my first time to actually ask any questions.
    Before the new foundation, prior ownership with this RAM resulted in the old system not going past XMP: At least not at any basic settings I felt comfortable throwing at it..

    With this new build, I started to test Overclocking past XMP.
    I am also completely new to and still learning AMD quirks.
    When it comes to a serious setting I would not be afraid to run daily, I have been trying to keep it mild (I think?) being unsure of what to expect and the furthest I have accomplished so far is 3600mhz CL14 @ 1.42v.
    Once already I have proven using AMD Ryzen Master auto setting FCLK slider to 2000mhz/2000mhz, I can achieve a successful 4000mhz boot. Yet as exciting as that was to accomplish, it included a CL18 and 1.44 or 1.45V, so I went back to XMP only again, since I was unsure of where to go from there.
    My only excuse is "I love to tinker" so running a higher RAM frequency with as low as a CL rating as possible, just seems interesting to me. Im not sure what kind of performance improvements I can receive, but performance IS my top priority, I dont need to prove a point if it just runs poor and unreliable.

    I dont know the limitations of my RAM:
    Is it a problem because I am starting off with "XMP3200 vs XMP3600" ram as my baseline?
    what is safe ranges for settings to stay in?
    what are suggestions for what baseline settings are safe to start to explore further?

    I currently stick to XMP only (because it works) and also my idle temps (and also my operating temps when gaming) usually stay low at around 32-36c.
    Kicking on the 3600mhz settings causes the CPU to idle around 40-42c.
    Ram stays around 30-32c in both instances, but obviously it is known to go upwards under load. Usually I have seen 40c as the highest.

    Just dont want to break anything, but I keep hearing how I bought "really high quality ram" so I would like to better understand and set my expectations for what I own.
    I am unsure if my RAM kit is included when you discuss the current tech conversations of the "new normal" being 3600-5000mhz.


  • #2
    You're on the right track. To answer your questions, yes, XMP 3600+ kit would be capable of lower timings, lower Voltage, and higher DRAM Frequency, but of course you pay for that. However, as you touched on a little bit, the DDR4-3200 CL14 kit is no slouch. The DDR4-4000 settings you had should be good. From that point you can try more DRAM Voltage such as 1.50V to see if it can stabilize a lower timing. If not, DDR4-4000 CL18-19-19 or the best stable settings should be fine. You can then benchmark test each configuration to see which values allow the system to perform best. In some cases the absolute lowest timings does not result to better performance. Let us know how it goes. 'new normal' is DDR4-3200/3600, let's not get too ahead, many CPUs still struggle with DDR4-4000+


    • #3
      Thank you for that info!
      You are right about the 3200 kit not being a slouch, wow.

      I was terrified of anything near 1.44v but you gave me an expectation limit far past what I expected. Now I can have better peace of mind when prioritizing lower voltage above anything else. Those are impressive recommendations compared to what Ive read around the net.
      Im also really shocked that you're supporting kicking it off at 4000mhz. Now I want to test bench. I really didn't even expect those kind of results.

      If these really are general expectations out of these kits, then I am absolutely more surprised and excited for buying The Royals, so thankful to have a set if thats the case. Just wow. Especially when (appreciate the correction) you state that 3200/3600 should be something to be grateful for.

      Ill share what I learn, maybe someone would like to hear the results.


      • #4
        Small update, maybe someone has an opinion:

        I forgot to mention that I achieved this 4000mhz using the current available BIOS "7C35v1C".
        I believe this is also the BIOS that my x570 mobo shipped with. Zen3 cpu install worked right out of the box.
        I could be wrong and it shipped with/achieved 4000mhz on "7C35v1B" ... but I dont want to keep reverting the BIOS so far back to test.
        At some point I then updated to the new "7C35v1D6 Beta BIOS".
        I have been unsuccessful with getting 4000mhz to load up again- I have been having lots of lockup/clear CMOS button issues and finally I realized I had done a BIOS update without any OCing tests since then to notice the problem.

        I went back to the official BIOS "7C35v1C" unfortunately I am still having lockup/clear CMOS issues.
        I don't know what the issue is now, but I cannot reach 4000mhz anymore. Maybe I need to completely remove the CMOS Battery?

        So a bit disappointing news. Unsure what the issue could be, so I guess Im just stuck hoping an updated BIOS will fix the issue.
        Ive returned back to "3600mhz realm" as my highest achievable stable OC.


        • #5
          How did you originally set up DDR4-4000? Have you tried scaling up to train the memory instead of jumping from DDR4-2133 to DDR4-4000? What are the best DDR4-3600 settings? Have you tried DDR4-3800?


          • #6
            Originally I was playing with "Ryzen Master" instead of BIOS for Memory OC, I heard it allows you to "easily test capabilities" so I gave it a try. Back then all I did was Slide Fclk to 2000mhz, left everything as auto and rebooted.
            Also YES.. I realize now what you mean, I DID use a "step up" procedure the first time, which I was not using this time around. I used RM to stepup to first 3600, 3800 then 4000.
            I returned to taking small baby steps this time.
            (I gotta admit, as nerdy as it sounds, its genuinely super enthralling that a computer will become unhappy with you if you choose to just dive right into something. Its literally like tuning an Air/Fuel ratio on a racecar.)

            Also one more thing that HAD to be my issue: I TURNED OFF FAST MEMORY BOOT.
            Oh my gosh man... Once I realized my bios reset defaulted this setting and I googled what it does, all my problems went away. I literally booted a troublesome 3800 with no settings changes, RIGHT after turning that setting off.

            At this time, I have returned to trying to monkey my way through BIOS instead of reopening Ryzen Master. I wasted my time trying to run that "AMD Memory OCing calculator" but after entering in all the "safe" settings for 3800mhz, it wouldn't boot, so I just used a BIOS preset instead to achieve it.
            I would like to accomplish 4000mhz on my own instead of allowing RM to get it.

            Best DDR4-3600: CL14 @ 1.420v (FCLK 1800mhz).
            I loaded a "3600/CL14" memory preset built into the BIOS with Auto everything and then adjusted the voltage lower to my liking.
            AFAIK its basically taking my "3200/CL14" settings and just adding a 3600. I have yet to do any advanced tightening on anything else other than what I listed.
            1.420v is my LIMIT. At 1.410v I just get stuck in a constant boot loop of BSOD/WHEA at the login screen. If I DO get logged in, it will just "WHEA-about" at some other point pretty soon.

            Best DDR4-3800: CL18 @ 1.450v (FCLK 1900mhz).
            Currently this is what I am running because of your advice, I have decided to step over 3600mhz for now.
            I am literally playing with this situation as I type this.
            Last night I ran 10 or 12 open instances of Memtest for about 2 hours, with no errors, before I decided to shut it down.
            However HWinfo says my voltages are about 1.49v, so I don't know why it is overriding my manual settings. I tried maybe tricking it by entering 1.42v but it wouldn't boot at all.

            I have been too scared to try 4000mhz again. I was hoping to learn something more through DDR4-3600/3800 before I tried crazy stuff again. I really was hoping to keep a voltage of 1.42-1.45.
            My knowledge of how to get Mem OCing to work is about as basic as "Match memory to FCLK, give it more voltage, leave everything else as Auto and pray."

            I also have yet to turn PBO or any of that AMD stuff, back on. I'm running a default BIOS, with a default 5900x and just dived right into memory OCing.


            • #7
              If you get BSOD at login screen you need to add at least +0.03V to be completely stable, +0.01V won't be enough.
              I myself don't get scared up to 1.55V, that also seems to be the limit for Samsung B-Die stability, I haven't got anything beyond that.
              Last edited by GrimReaper; 02-14-2021, 02:53 PM.


              • #8
                Thank you for that tip! man thats super specific and useful to know.
                So you are saying that if I Loop at 1.410v, I need to add at least 1.413v? That sounds like Voltage has a really, REALLY broad spectrum of use, thats insane.

                I will be honest, Right now I am back at XMP. I should have known better and I think those motherboard presets are dumping voltage into places Im not very familiar with yet, like the SOC, so I dont want to be reckless.

                You guys that understand how to "speak" RAM OCing, are amazing. I dont get any of the required settings like I can understand for a CPU. Its been a big learning curve. (I think thats partly why I opted to pony up for some Royal Z. If I was going to have problems with learning how to OC ram, it was going to fall on my skill, not hardware, as the hurdles. Also look good at the same time, heyyyooooo.)


                • #9
                  Currently using the newest 1E1 beta bios from MSI, finally decided to give RAM ocing another try.

                  Totally stock cpu, no PBO or curve, just basic "on".
                  SoC is 1.1v
                  Out of the xmp 3200 CL14 trident ram, the bulletpoints Ive found stable are:
                  3600mhz-14-14-14-34 1.420v (xmp settings but with a 3600, and a forced minimum voltage)
                  3733mhz-16-18-18-38 1.448v (I leave set to 1.420 and it auto loads this.)
                  3800mhz-16-18-18-38 1.476 (Took 1.492 to get this and now its starting to become tame. Booting and restarting/shutdown has become solid, so Im trying to get lucky and wrangle the voltage back down some- but I also want to bring down the timings...)

                  I can boot games, I play, life is great- but other then that, I have yet to run some major memtesting, so this is just a kinda feeling of whats attainable before I find a setting I really am interested in testing.

                  I HAVE gained tangible FPS in some titles that still run below the minimum, so this performance is full of gratitude.

                  Shooting for 4000mhz.

                  EDIT: Quick update. Completely decided to shoot from the hip and I was able to boot 3800mhz-16-16-16-34 1.472v, and it boots and works MUCH more reliably and snappier.
                  EDIT AGAIN: 1.444v now. I have it set as 1.420v in bios, but it loads as this. I know if I set BIOS lower than 1.420v, it probably wont boot, so this is probably my minimum voltage.
                  Last edited by BunnyButt; 03-06-2021, 07:31 PM.


                  • #10
                    Ok now I have figured out a tangible goal I want and I could use some expertise from someone.
                    Im starting to realize that I am only interested in OCing to the point of an absolute highest performance benefit. I am not interested in getting as high as possible just to say so.

                    With that being said, I cant really get anything near 1.5v/CL20 1:1 4000mhz to boot.
                    Since this seems to be the case, I am not interested to proceed further as those kind of latency numbers look terrible,
                    also I just dont want to keep pushing the voltage.
                    I cant think how achieving these numbers would benefit me.
                    Would be freaking cool to do and I might at a later time try testing the voltage limit that GrimReaper gave me.

                    My highest possible achievement of this concept seems to be:
                    3800mhz-16-15-15-32-trfc300 1.44v
                    (set to 1.42v in bios, but gives that instead)
                    I decided to move down to 3733mhz, and I brought all my settings with me, only this time I was hoping for a full CL15/maybe CL14, but it gives me the same uneven CL16/15 combo.
                    I tried raising trfc to 400, and also voltage to 1.5 as well, it would continue to boot, but NOTHING I did would give me an even CL15, it would always load as CL16/15
                    Do I have any possibility of hitting 3800CL14/CL15 or 3733CL14/CL15 without an uneven CL and if so, how?


                    • #11
                      Uneven CAS latencies require Gead Down Mode to be disabled, which often makes it harder to stabilize higher frequencies. So that is why most people settle with an even CAS latency and the by default enabled GDM instead. If you set an uneven number with GDM enabled the number will automatically be rounded up, so CL15 becomes CL16.

                      To assess how much voltage your kit might require for 3733/3800 CL14, it would help to test the required voltage for 3600 CL14 first. If you can get that fully stable with 1.4V or less, then 3800 CL14 at 1.5V is reasonable.
                      Team HardwareLUXX | Show off your G.SKILL products!


                      • #12
                        emissary42 you flat out gave me a cheat sheet and I understand. I was OCing ram reverse of what im supposed to do. Also thank you for explaining why I couldnt get cl15.

                        I'm achieving 3800mhz-14-14-14-32-Trc51-Trfc300 @ 1.52v
                        I achieved boots with as low as 1.50-1.51v, but had BSOD right after or a bit after login.
                        Is this voltage really safe for a daily use? I almost want to just accept 3600mhz and 1.44v just to get voltage lower. Also my cpu is not overclocked at all, I am unsure if this could help or hurt getting voltage to lower.


                        • #13
                          Going over 1.5V usually requires active cooling of the modules and can reduce their lifetime. However if these settings pass any of the typical synthetic stability tests, it should be fine. There are lots of people around the web that run daily settings with even higher voltages. The general consensus is that S8B can usually withstand them, even for longer periods (a couple of years at least). If you notice that they require more voltage for the same settings in a couple of months, that would be a sign of them slowly degrading.
                          Team HardwareLUXX | Show off your G.SKILL products!


                          • #14
                            Hi guys.
                            A lot has been experimented with over the last few months, and I’m interested in more suggestions of where I should go.

                            In the end, I have used a lot of real world experiences to search for stability with my ram OC. I’ve been up and down 3600-3800mhz cl14-cl16. Whatever I can get away with at my “1.44v limit”

                            Currently my settings that haven’t given me any problems is 3733mhz/CL16-34-trc50-trfc400@1.44-1.48v

                            It almost seems that the more I run higher mhz, the more stable it becomes to boot in those Mhz and ALSO, i’m starting to be able to lower my voltage requirements, strangely. 1.44v used to not work.

                            HOWEVER, In certain very demanding games, I see temps on the RAM around 50-52c.... This bothers me, and i’m not really sure what to do next. My cooling is pretty much maxed out. I’m about to give up and go back to xmp... i’m trying to understand tangibly what a RAM OC can do for me, and i’m not sure how much gain I usually see from it. I almost SWORE I saw a 20fps gain once I went to 3733mhz/cl16, and i’ve kept it there since, but now i’m starting to heat soak badly when I play games for hours on end.

                            Thank for any additional help. You guys really have helped me understand ram OCing


                            • #15
                              RAM temp is fine, as long as the CPU remains within spec then heat should not be an issue. The DDR4-3733 settings mentioned is good for daily operation and not pushing too much Voltage/heat.