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  • How do I install two memory kits? (Asus x79)

    Hi,
    I asked the following question at Asus technical support.

    ?Which memory channels go together? The memory kits I have are QVL listed as
    supported for 8 dimm installation, however G. Skill will only guarantee compatibility
    between modules in a kit, not between 2 kits. I assume this means that I can?t mix
    modules from different kits on the same channels or maybe they mean pair of
    channels. My guess is channel A and C run together and channel B and D run
    together, but I could be wrong.?

    This is the answer I got.

    ?Please refer to the manual page 2-5 for a detail check about memory installation.?
    Getting a response like that is probably my fault. Since it is now my understanding that G. Skill, not Asus, actually performs the tests necessary to be on the Asus QVL, I will try to ask the question here more clearly.

    I have these items:
    P9X79 Deluxe
    I7 3930k
    32gb (8 x 4gb) G.Skill @ 2133 (2 x F3-17000CL9Q-16GBZH kits)
    2 x 256gb Crucial M4 SSD (Raid 0?)
    WD Velociraptor 600 GB SATA (WD6000HLHX)
    Corsair Hydro Series H100
    Corsair CC800DW Obsidian
    Seasonic X-1250
    MS Win 7 Ultimate

    I?m still shopping for these items:
    Small SSD for caching the WD drive on the Marvel controller.
    Asus Radeon 69xx or 79xx video card (TBD)
    BluRay/DVD read/write (TBD)
    Memory coolers??
    Flash Drive (usb 3.0 & 2.0)

    I have read over 1000 pages of documentation and forum posts. I have read the Asus P9X79 Deluxe manual. Page 2-5 shows a picture of 8 dimms being installed into 8 slots. This is not very helpful. To be fair page 2-13 says the following:

    ?Side(s): SS - Single-sided DS - Double-sidedDIMM support:
    ? 2 DIMMs: Supports two (2) modules inserted into either the blue slots or the black slots as one pair of Dual-channel memory configuration. We suggest that you install the modules into slots B1 and D1 for better compatibility.
    ? 4 DIMMs: Supports four (4) modules inserted into either the blue slots or the black slots as one DIMM per channel for Quad-channel memory configuration.We suggest that you install the modules into slots A1/B1/C1/D1 for better compatibility.
    ? 6 DIMMs: Supports six (6) modules inserted into both the blue and black slots as two pairs of Dual-channel and one pair of the other Dual-channel for Quad-channel memory configuration. We suggest that you install the modules into slots A1/B1/B2/C1/D1/D2 for better compatibility.
    ? 8 DIMMs: Supports eight (8) modules inserted into all the blue and black slots as full-loading of Quad-channel memory configuration.?

    The best that I can glean from rereading page 2-13 is that the information does not support my original intuition that I should populate channels A and C with one kit and channels B and D with the other kit. From what I can tell after rereading page 2-13 I now feel that it would be better to populate channels A and B with one kit and channels C and D with the other kit.

    I assume that someone at G. Skill has actual run the 8 dimm configuration with these memory kits and this motherboard in order get it on the Asus QVL in the 8 dimm configuration. Since Intel states that their 3930k memory controller is limited to a total of 32 Gb of memory, I hope that the certification test set up included that processor.

    My question then is:
    How best do I install 32gb (8 x 4gb) G.Skill @ 2133 (2 x F3-17000CL9Q-16GBZH kits) of memory on the Asus P9X79 Deluxe motherboard to best utilize the memory architecture of the Intel 2nd Generation i7 3930k and minimize any adverse influence on the motherboard?s memory bios set up which may be caused by using 2 kits?

    Thank you,
    Tom

  • #2
    I'd take 1 kit, and install in A1,B1,C1,D1 (quad channel), enable XMP select your profile and go ahead and boot up and make sure you have the latest BIOS, if not Flash to the newest BIOS. If all Okay, shut down, remove power cord, install the 2nd set of sticks. Plug in, power up and back into BIOS, Disable XMP as it won't work with two sets of sticks, make sure timings are are still at the spec timings for the sticks and the CPU is still OCed (would guess about 4.4, and yes, you need an OC to run these at native 2133 ), and go ahead and try to boot into Windows. Here's where problems may arise if the sticks in the two sets don't want to play nice....if they don't will want to go back into BIOS and I would initially suggest Raising DRAM voltage from 1.65 to 1.7 and give that a try, still problems, back to BIOS and raise CPUVTT voltage + .07 or so, and give that a try......let us know how it goes


    Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

    Tman

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Tradesman,

      I'm a long way from energizing this build. The motherboard is on the bench and I prefer to install the memory before installing the board in the case.

      I understand the need to install just one kit with one memory module in each channel to get everything up and running but when I do finally install all the memory surely you are not suggesting I simply install the remaining kit in the remaining empty slots. That most likely would result in mixing different secondary and tertiary timings in each memory channel. Is that really better than keeping matching pairs of memory modules in each memory channel? Or does it just not matter?

      Thank you,
      Tom

      Comment


      • #4
        HI:

        I just purchased two sets of "F3-17000CL11Q-16GBZL" kits for a total of 32 gigs. I am building a new machine this year, so I went ahead and started the build with ram (Thank you G.Skill for the great deal). It's funny, because Tom's post is line for what I was about to ask, too.

        I want to know which motherboard that will operate at the rated 2133mhz frequency with all 8 dimms in use, because THAT is the brand and model of motherboard I will buy. The reason why it's such an important question is because I kind of got screwed out of an overclocked ram kit when I purchased addtional 1066mhz DDR2 for my Asus Pro Turbo motherboard. It worked fine at the rated 1066mhz with only two dimms populated, but would only work at 800mhz if all four slots were filled. No amount of tweaking could fix it.

        So, which motherboard should I buy to eliminate this problem and that has been tested to work at 2133mhz with all 8 dimms in use on the x79 chipset?


        Thanks in advance,
        TM










        P.S. Tom, can you please let me know what you discover about your setup, it would be very much appreciated.
        Last edited by Terminal Meltdown; 01-03-2012, 01:47 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Tom (and Termial Meltdown also),
          You bought two quad channel sets, by starting with one set, you are occupying the the primary DIMM sockets of each channel (1 DIMM in ea channel), enabling XMP will set them for this mobo and BIOS since the Ripjaws Z are designed for the X79 and XMP 1.3. However, XMP doesn't work with multiple sets since the sets are programmed individual sets, that's why you then need to turn off XMP prior to installation of the second set. The second set will occupy the secondary slots of each channel and should pick up and maintain the same base timings as the original set, the BIOS will make adjustments (or should) to the DRAM advanced timings, however again, since we are mixing sets, you need to ensure the required OC remains in effect after XMP is disabled, and generally always need to raise the 2 voltages mentioned to get the sticks to play together. Once everything is stable, i.e. if stable from the directions given, you can experiment with lowering voltages to the lowest level needed for stability....or...if you plan to OC the sticks more or even underclock them and try running tighter timings for a performance gain, you can be working from a stable base. If this had been a single set of 8x4GB sticks (better choice) or 4x8GB sticks (best choice if thinking af increasing DRAM in future) then it would have been simply install, enable XMP, select profile and go.

          (Meltdown, the problem with the Pro Turbo may have been the BIOS, the mobo or CPU itself (may have been limited to 1 stick per channel at 1066, which if that was the case, should have been able to drop to 800/900 and tighten timings and maintain near the same performance as 1066 native), or just needed adjustment(s) to timings/voltages
          Last edited by Tradesman; 01-03-2012, 02:49 PM.


          Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

          Tman

          Comment


          • #6
            Tradesman:

            Thanks so much for the reply. In the world of business, that means a lot to the consumer and I greatly appreciate your time. The XMS profiles are really tied to one another in a kit of 4? I just thought they'd all be the same with two identical part numbers, so you know, you could easliy upgrade later. I understand the concept in which you're trying to describe and I do intend to overclock the CPU (if it'll hold and water cooled of course) to sync with the ram, but I do not intend overclock the ram at all. I just want the ram to work as advertised.

            I will be hunting a qualified motherboard for what I'm after and, I think I found a likely candidate with actual written specifications on their site. It a "MSI X79A-GD65 (8D)," and it specifically states,"Supports eight unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 1066/1333/1600/1800*/2133*/2400* (OC) DRAM, 128GB Max."* Now, the real question is, is that what I think it means or a deception in advertising. My question will be re-directed to the MSI company for a final answer, though. In the mean time, would you happen to know if their motherboard and model (note the "8D" version) is fully supported by the memory kit I purchased and possible have any data facts about it truly running as advertised? I do realize that you may not have the answer to my question, and it's entirely understandable.

            And, I was using a Q9650 cpu with that Asus board. I tried all bios revisions, yes. So, as you can probably tell, I'm seeking facts before I make my next purchase.


            Thanks so much,
            TM



            Reference link *
            http://us.msi.com/product/mb/X79A-GD...l#/?div=Detail

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you for your continuing guidance Tradesman,

              I understand your admonishment about mixing two kits. I did a great deal of research before making the purchases, here was my reasoning:

              1. The only G. Skill 32 Gb kit listed in the QVL is the G. Skill F3-19200CL10Q-32GBZHD which is a 4 x 8 Gb kit.

              2. Intel states that the i7 3930k memory controller does not reach its full band width potential unless all 8 memory slot are populated.

              3. The Asus QVL lists the memory kits I purchased as qualified for 8 dimm slots.

              4. Intel states that i7 3930k memory controller is limited to 32 Gb.

              Therefore the memory kits I purchased were, to me, the best choice to maximize the potential of this motherboard/processor combination. I was fully aware that I would have to time this set up by hand. Thank you for your directions on using XMP to ease the process and pointing out that I need to keep an eye on the processor speed after disabling XMP and rebooting with the additional memory. I am concerned about the memory voltages you suggested because Intel states the memory voltage of 1.65v or higher will damage the i7 3930k processor.

              I understand from studying Intel’s block diagrams of the 3930k that the memory controller is capable of remapping memory in about any configuration, however I wonder if it wouldn’t be better and increase the memory performance to keep the modules paired up even if it would be more difficult to set the timings?

              Thank you,
              Tom

              Hi Terminal Meltdown,
              I will gladly share the findings of my build but I must warn you it is not on a fast track. You may well finish ahead of me. Good Luck.
              Last edited by Tom; 01-03-2012, 05:52 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Tom first as it's his thread:

                With this being a new mobo (relatively), ASUS will have tested with what they had available (i.e. they tested with Flares and Tridents, both discontinued awhile back) and as with any mobo, they aren't going to test every set possible that will possibly work with the mobos, (with GSkill alone that would exceed 100 sets, not counting Mushkin, Kingston, Corsair, Geil, etc,etc, etc). I haven't seen that yet, about having all slots filled to reach full potential (wondering if you have a reference you could provide for my reference, haven't seen anything on that)....I would fully understand having all 4 channels populated, which would be required for quad channel enablement and to get the quad bandwidth...but at the same time 32 is 32 and 4 sticks vs 8 would mean with 4 you have less stress on the MC in the CPU, which can affect Intel CPUs (though not near as bad as AMD CPUs suffer). Intel will list memory voltage based on the CPU running at stock speed i.e.3.2 w/ 3.9 overdrive....but check the DRAM, the CPU is rated for 1600 DRAM....but we all know the CPU can run 2133 and even higher. Hope I answered all and in a manner that makes sense, if not let me know.

                Meltdown,

                The XMP that is programmed in is for the set of sticks you get, you generally see the basics i.e. base timings and voltages, XMP also has info for advanced timings for the set, a good example is the tRFC, as the number of sticks used goes up, so the the tRFC, say two sticks may require a tRFC of 66, with 4 sticks it may be 84....so if your set is four and programmed for a tRFC of 84 with 8 sticks it might take 120 or whatever, which isn't is the data set of the SPD.

                As to running the DRAM as advertised, yes it will run, but 2133 sticks require an OC, the CPU at native is rated to 1600. On the mobo, technically, it means what it says, but is awaiting future generations of anticipated components i.e. it says it can handle 128GB of DRAM or 8x16GB sticks and how many 16GB sticks have you seen? or even how many CPUs that can run that much DRAM. The CPU mentioned here says 32GB max, think the 3960 is rated the same. Also those *s by the speed/freq of the DRAM indicates that an OC is required to run at those freq's. When you check on mobos, ask specifics including what CPU they used to test for their QVL and at what settings, they generally won't tell, but from what I've gotten from various mobo manufactures it's generally the most powerful/fastest CPU that will run in the socket (and at times beta CPUs that aren't even on the market yet, they also generally won't provide the settings/timings/voltages they used. Again Hope I covered all.

                To both of you all, keep us informed of progress as you have the time, Appreciate it!


                Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

                Tman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tradesman View Post
                  Meltdown,

                  The XMP that is programmed in is for the set of sticks you get, you generally see the basics i.e. base timings and voltages, XMP also has info for advanced timings for the set, a good example is the tRFC, as the number of sticks used goes up, so the the tRFC, say two sticks may require a tRFC of 66, with 4 sticks it may be 84....so if your set is four and programmed for a tRFC of 84 with 8 sticks it might take 120 or whatever, which isn't is the data set of the SPD.

                  As to running the DRAM as advertised, yes it will run, but 2133 sticks require an OC, the CPU at native is rated to 1600. On the mobo, technically, it means what it says, but is awaiting future generations of anticipated components i.e. it says it can handle 128GB of DRAM or 8x16GB sticks and how many 16GB sticks have you seen? or even how many CPUs that can run that much DRAM. The CPU mentioned here says 32GB max, think the 3960 is rated the same. Also those *s by the speed/freq of the DRAM indicates that an OC is required to run at those freq's. When you check on mobos, ask specifics including what CPU they used to test for their QVL and at what settings, they generally won't tell, but from what I've gotten from various mobo manufactures it's generally the most powerful/fastest CPU that will run in the socket (and at times beta CPUs that aren't even on the market yet, they also generally won't provide the settings/timings/voltages they used. Again Hope I covered all.

                  To both of you all, keep us informed of progress as you have the time, Appreciate it!
                  Ok, this sounds very promising and I am delighted to hear this. Upon further examination of your product line, I am noticing some part numbers that look to be almost identical:

                  F3-17000CL11Q2-32GBZL (32 gig kit)
                  F3-17000CL11Q-16GBZL (What I ordered x2)

                  I'm guessing that the "2" means 2 x 4x4gig kits programmed for 32gig in the XMP. For the latter, my XMP will be programmed for only 16gigs. Thus, the XMP for my purchased kit will be invalid because it's not programmed correctly for the specific bundle I purchased. This is merely speculation, so please, do correct me if I'm wrong.

                  Ok, I can live with that. So, if these two kits are the same memory modules programmed differently, can you or your Gskill engineers tell me all of the predefined XMP entries from the "F3-17000CL11Q2-32GBZL" kit so that I can replicate it exactly and manually set the numbers in to my system bios, then? I have no problem tweaking the bios manually if I have something to go by.

                  Like I said earlier, I'm building a new system this year piece by piece and I want some rock solid components. It may take a month or so before Intel's C-2 revision is in stock, but GSKILL memory is already on it's way . I do know I will be buying an Intel 3930k once it's released and, I also want to buy a motherboard that is competent enough to handle the task. Can you show me a certified list of motherboard models that will indeed work with my described application?

                  One final note about my old Q9650 system. This XMP (or EPP back then) setting was the culprit, wasn't it...




                  TM





                  P.S. Tom, yes, please post any discoveries you find. That will help me decide on which brand I should choose.
                  Last edited by Terminal Meltdown; 01-04-2012, 01:52 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Basically yes, the Q2 refers to 8 sticks, S-single, D-Dual, T-Tri, Q-Quad they do the same with the six stick sets "T2".

                    For the other timings and a possible list of 'certified' mobos, I'll drop a note to GSkill to check this thread

                    On the 9650 I'll check what info I've got, the 9650 shouldn't have been the problem, unless the mobo wasn't ready for it, it may have been how XMP was implemented or just a poorly written (programmed BIOS, have run into a number of those), should have been able to set up manually anyway.


                    Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

                    Tman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tradesman View Post
                      Basically yes, the Q2 refers to 8 sticks, S-single, D-Dual, T-Tri, Q-Quad they do the same with the six stick sets "T2".

                      For the other timings and a possible list of 'certified' mobos, I'll drop a note to GSkill to check this thread

                      On the 9650 I'll check what info I've got, the 9650 shouldn't have been the problem, unless the mobo wasn't ready for it, it may have been how XMP was implemented or just a poorly written (programmed BIOS, have run into a number of those), should have been able to set up manually anyway.
                      Thank you so much for requesting a validation before I purchase a new motherboard. Also, do not waste your time on the Q9650 issue, that's history. On to the future!




                      TM

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's a great CPU, can always send it to me


                        Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

                        Tman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The old system's proceeds are being used towards the ridiculously inflated price of the 3930k cpu and motherboard. Look on the bright side, though, your company's future is very bright. Look at all the new customers and future business Gskill will have because of this quality tech support. Heck, you even deserve a promotion by now

                          I also wanted to mention to your Gskill crew, that whether it's Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, or whatever, I just want the THE ONE that works.
                          Last edited by Terminal Meltdown; 01-04-2012, 03:50 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That would be GSkill's crew, I'm a member of the board not a GSkill employee (though wish I was, part time anyway), I help out and it helps me keep up with all the hardware out there.


                            Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

                            Tman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Tradesman,

                              Thanks for the info. I did not save the citation from Intel about the memory bandwidth, but my notes indicated that the assertion was supported by the documentation for the P9X79 Deluxe motherboard. I reread the online version of the motherboard manual a couple times and I could not find how I would have drawn that conclusion, I thought I must be losing my mind!

                              A few minutes ago I picked up the hard copy manual that came with the motherboard and there it was on page 2-13 (the section I quoted from the online version) and it clearly stated that 4 memory modules, one in each channel would be dual channel, it also stated the 6 memory modules would be triple channel and 8 memory modules be quad channel.

                              I hope that clears that up for you. As for your answers they have all been helpful. The motherboard is installed with 4 modules like you suggested, I was surprised at just how much force it took to seat them properly. If I had a suitable video card I'd be testing now but everything I have in the shop is antique or belongs to a customer.

                              I still feel like I'm stepping out on a weak branch because based on your advice I clearly do not understand how the controller interweaves the two sticks of memory on each channel.

                              Thanks again for all your help,
                              Tom

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