Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Looking for Sub Timings to increase speed of Trident X from 1600 to 2400 ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Looking for Sub Timings to increase speed of Trident X from 1600 to 2400 ?

    Hi,

    I'd like to change the speed and timing of my TridentX from 1600 to "faster" and was looking for complete timings if possible. Is there a complete set of all timings for 2x8GB Trident X DDR3 for different speeds that I might experiment with?

    Why? I purchased 1.5V CL7 Trident X f3-1600c7d-16gtx for a z87 system that could not over-volt the memory, so I went with CL7 at 1.5V. Works great, very fast, no complaints.

    A couple of weeks ago, I built a Z97/4790K system and brought the memory along. After some initial CPU OC, I experimented increasing the RAM frequency with some success, but the timings were very loose to the point I'd call them sloppy.

    10 16 16 36 313 1T was what I got letting the BIOS set the sub timings. Overall it was stable, but I don't think the performance was really better.

    I experimented lowering tRCD, tRP, tRAS and tRFC at 2400/2133 using the settings for other TridentX RAM on the TridentX product Page but wasn't getting the stability I needed, and I felt I needed a better starting point for settings.

    So, I'm looking for better numbers as as starting point. The Mobo has GSkill DDR3 3000 speeds stored but I can't even get the system to POST using them.

    Here are the relevant parts of my system, and the rest is in my sig.

    MoBo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5
    CPU: i7 4790K OC to 4.7Ghz. but will likely end up 4.6Ghz with lower voltage
    RAM: gskill 16GB DDR3 1600 7-8-8-24 http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f3-1600c7d-16gtx

    I appreciate any input or suggestions.

    Thanks!
    CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming
    Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 1600 CL7 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
    PSU: Seasonic X 650 Gold Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200

  • #2
    Do not use the generic OC profiles, because most of them are targeted at special types of kits and use extreme voltages (in deep red color). Just guessing or trial & erroring them one by one, might damage your memory and/or CPU. There should be a warning message about this in the UEFI and/or user manual.

    First try to find a starting set of timings, that are stable at your target clock rate. Leave most sub-timings on auto for that. Save those in a BIOS profile and to an USB key. Then start reducing one timing after another and do some quick stability and performance checks in between. Save your temporary settings in profiles, you can have as many as you want saved in a single folder @ USB.

    With your kit and DDR3-2400 i would start at 11-13-13-31 2T (CL, tRCD, tRP, tRAS, CR) with secondary timings left on AUTO and memory voltage at 1.65V. The other relevant voltages are VCCSA and VCCIO, however most boards do automatically adjust them for higher memory ratios if you don't touch them*. Since your kit probably uses Samsung 4Gbit B-Die ICs, you might then be able to tighten the primary timings to something along the lines of 11-12-12-28 / 10-12-13-28 / 10-12-12-28 / 10-11-12-28 / 10-10-12-28 / 10-10-11-28. Since that is a 2x8GB kit there won't be that much room to reduce the tRFC and you probably need to keep it somewhere above 240. Other secondaries you can tighten down quite a bit, however you will get bigger gains from tightening the tertiary timings.

    Edit: If you are not on a recent BIOS release you might want to update first, since you will lose all your saved profiles after updating since they only compatible with the version they have been created with.

    *You might want to minimize those voltages afterwards, if you see very large offsets applied for DDR3-2400. In most cases 10 to 100mV should be more than enough.
    Team HardwareLUXX | Show off your G.SKILL products!

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks !


      I'm am running 2400Mhz 10-12-12-36 313 2T auto settings for everything else.

      edit: at CPU running 4.6 Ghz. I'm also trying to reduce CPU voltage and keep temps at about 70C under load.

      two loops of x264 stability test ran clean. I'll run more for longer when I get it dialed in.

      Can you clarify:

      1) what voltages should I be looking to watch? System Agent Offset or Memory Voltage?

      Memory Voltage is at 1.64 (it won't do 1.65).
      SA Offset is + .020V

      I'm not sure which timings are "secondary" and which are tertiary. I understand the concepts, but am not sure exactly which setting to adjust. Is there something I can read so I don't guess wrong?

      And is there a good tool to run on windoze 81 to see all the sub timings? Tools I was familiar with no longer work with the integrated memory controllers?

      Thanks again.

      I'll do a little more on this in a day or so.
      Last edited by Dan-H; 08-25-2015, 11:54 PM. Reason: adding clarity
      CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming
      Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 1600 CL7 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
      PSU: Seasonic X 650 Gold Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200

      Comment


      • #4
        Your voltages look alright to me. Completely tightening all timings will take quite some time, especially if you never fiddled with those before... and it is learning by doing mostly, one small step at a time. Every kit is a bit different and your CPU and MB do also play a role in that, so there is no universally optimal values to directly try :d

        To display the timings in windows use ASRock Timing Configurator (ATC), that you can download from the ASRock Z97 OC Formula product page. As an alternative try Gigabyte MemoryTweak from the Z97X-SOC Force download page (secondaries = advanced, tertiaries = misc). However the ASRock tool is preferred by most users regardless of MB manufacturer.
        Team HardwareLUXX | Show off your G.SKILL products!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by emissary42 View Post
          Completely tightening all timings will take quite some time, especially if you never fiddled with those before... and it is learning by doing mostly, one small step at a time. Every kit is a bit different and your CPU and MB do also play a role in that, so there is no universally optimal values to directly try :d
          I have tinkered before and have gotten got decent, measurable gains, but yes, it took a long time with a lot of trial an error and testing.

          Instead of repeating this, I was hoping to get a complete XMP profile from one of the similar models of memory that is tested at 2400 Mhz, and use this as a starting point. Perhaps GSkill would be nice enough to share


          Thanks also for the tools reference. I'll give those a try.
          CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming
          Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 1600 CL7 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
          PSU: Seasonic X 650 Gold Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200

          Comment


          • #6

            Comment


            • #7
              @GSKILL TECH

              Thanks, I'll experiment with those later tonight and report back my results.
              CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming
              Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 1600 CL7 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
              PSU: Seasonic X 650 Gold Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200

              Comment


              • #8
                Below is where I'm at right now.



                I tried lowering tRAS, and tRFC, but the timings didn't stick. There might still be something on Auto that is computing these as I recall some of these have a recommended formula.

                I got a slight bump in Cinebench, and I'll run some stability tests, but so far it is promising.

                I'm out of time tonight...
                CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming
                Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 1600 CL7 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
                PSU: Seasonic X 650 Gold Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200

                Comment


                • #9
                  Looks pretty good!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    DRAM voltage at 1.64 (per BIOS setting) but the BIOS voltage readout was indicating 1.66.
                    SystemAgent Offset increased to 200Mv.



                    another bump up on Cinebench overall.

                    I think it is good enough for now.

                    Thanks again.
                    CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming
                    Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 1600 CL7 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
                    PSU: Seasonic X 650 Gold Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do you have a proper cinebench screenshot with the relevant CPU-Z tabs?

                      There is still lots of room to tighten the subtimings.
                      Team HardwareLUXX | Show off your G.SKILL products!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by emissary42 View Post
                        Do you have a proper cinebench screenshot with the relevant CPU-Z tabs?

                        There is still lots of room to tighten the subtimings.
                        Apologies for not understanding what you are asking for.

                        The Cinebench I have doesn't have much to show, and CPU-Z has only a few timings.
                        CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming
                        Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 1600 CL7 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
                        PSU: Seasonic X 650 Gold Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well it is hard to put your cinebench scores into perspective, if you don't give us that actual scores and at what cpu clock you were testing. I don't bench cinebench a lot, but i have a few scores to compare it with. A 4790K at 4.8GHz with G.SKILL TridentX F3-2400C9D-8GTXD at XMP settings gave me around 986cb/193cb in CB15.

                          Last edited by emissary42; 08-28-2015, 03:52 PM.
                          Team HardwareLUXX | Show off your G.SKILL products!

                          Comment


                          • #14




                            Cinebench comments were relative, and mostly referencing improvements on the CPU side measurements.

                            I lowered CPU clock to 4.6 Ghz to get voltage down. and the best CPU score at 4.6 Ghz was 931

                            CPU @4.7Ghz was not stable under 1.33V which is higher than I want to run

                            Temps are OK with the Cryorig R1 ultimate even at 1.33V.
                            Attached Files
                            CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming
                            Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 1600 CL7 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
                            PSU: Seasonic X 650 Gold Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I set tREFI to 30,000.

                              Also increased CPU to 4.7Ghz and increased VRIN or VCCIN to 1.95 in BIOS, but the measured VRIN is 1.908. Not sure which to believe but it is within the OC limits from what I've read.

                              4.7Ghz is stable (so far) in everything except Prime95. I've read much debate about P95 and Devils' Canyon OC and I think I'll try 4.7 for a while.

                              Attached Files
                              CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming
                              Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 1600 CL7 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
                              PSU: Seasonic X 650 Gold Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X