Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

F3-12800CL9Q-16GBRL + ASUS M4A87TD/USB3 + AMD Phenom II X4 965

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • F3-12800CL9Q-16GBRL + ASUS M4A87TD/USB3 + AMD Phenom II X4 965

    Hello. I am requesting help finding system stability by adjusting timings/voltages in BIOS. Below is a list of the hardware in my system, and the history/symptoms of my problem.

    AMD Phenom II x4 965 3.4ghz
    12 GB RAM
    1 TB HDD
    GeForce GTX 550Ti 1GB
    Windows 7 64-bit


    [Main Hardware]
    Power Supply
    OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular High Performance Power Supply compatible with Intel Sandybridge Core i3 i5 i7 and AMD Phenom
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341017

    Motherboard
    ASUS M4A87TD/USB3 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131651

    Processor
    AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103727

    Memory
    G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9Q-16GBRL
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231315

    Video Card
    EVGA 01G-P3-1556-KR GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Fermi) FPB 1GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130625

    Hard Drive
    Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148697

    [Additional Hardware]
    Computer Case
    LIAN LI PC-A05B Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811112130

    DVD Drive
    LG 22X Super-Multi DVD Burner 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model GH22NS90B - Retail - OEM
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136240

    Fan Controller
    Scythe Kaze Master Pro 5.25 Fan Controller
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811998077

    PCI Slot Fan
    Vantec Spectrum Fan Card with Dual 70mm Adjustable UV LED Fans - Model SP-FC70-BL
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835888112

    CPU Cooler
    COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler Compatible with Intel 1366/1155/775 and AMD FM1/FM2/AM3+
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103065

    ___

    I purchased this computer 3/25/12 from Newegg (items that were purchased at separate times: case, internal fans, pci slot fan, fan controller). Mainly the issues I've been having revolve around system stability and random system crashing.

    The problem was intermittent for such a long time (and I was in college) so I never bothered to get my system rock-solid stable. I've been able to get by for about 14 months without serious issues, but now the problem seems to have gotten worse. Initially my system would crash (as in the computer would restart itself and/or shut down) after 4-6 hours of gaming. I was playing a lot of Star Wars: The Old Republic at the time, if that matters. So I troubleshoot online (read: Googling), and my feedback is that it's most likely heat-related (In the reviews of my GPU people recommend having software-automated fan control for proper cooling). My GPU is rated at 100° C max on the NVIDIA site (http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desk...specifications), but it reaches upwards of about 80-85°C during heavy gaming. Now--my Lian Li case's airflow design is reversed from the traditional design (intake fan in the lower back, exhaust fan in the lower front) so the areas around my GPU tend to become a pocket for heat. Also the front of the case has very few vents for exhausting heat. So at this point I'm convinced that the random shut-downs must somehow be heat related. I did several things to correct this: Added the pci slot fan above the GPU, added another fan onto my CPU cooler, and cut a 120mm blowhole out of the front of the case. So for heat control I have four 120mm fans, the pci slot fans, and the fan controller. She's one windy beast with the fans fully cranked. Idle temperatures for my GPU are 35°C and for my CPU 38°. Peak stress-temperatures reach 75-80°C for my GPU and 50°C for my CPU. I had been really busy with school so for a time I didn't know if the problems disappeared. Fast forward a few months.

    So I've owned the computer for about 18 months now, and it seems pretty clear that the problem is not heat related. Also, instead of random shutdowns or restarts nowadays, my system crashes and the screen goes black (but the computer stays powered-up). Sometimes, my GPU fan will kick into full throttle during these crashes. I have to hold the power button and hard reset. Unfortunately, the memory is not on my motherboard's qualified vendor list (Located here: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M4A...3/#support_QVL).

    Also, my motherboard has been unwilling to boot lately with 16 GB of ram installed. I'm fairly certain I used to have 16GB installed, but took 1 stick out several months ago while troubleshooting and now I am running 12GB. At first I attributed this to the motherboard's stinginess (in this mobo's reviews on Newegg, people pointed out difficulties in running 16GB). But now, I think my DIMM slot number 2 is somehow broken. Currently DIMM slots 1,3, and 4 are filled. I have tried booting with just 1 stick of ram in DIMM 2, and with 2 sticks of ram in DIMM 2 and 4. I've also tried using MemOK to help detect boot settings unsuccessfully. I just can't seem to POST using DIMM slot 2 at all. Maybe that's obvious indication that my motherboard is failing and that it's likely having issues elsewhere. I don't know.

    It seems like, at times, I can stress my computer without issue and without crashes, but at other times the system will crash not long after booting up a game or watching a movie on Netflix.

    Troubleshooting that I've done:

    --BIOS update (I already have the latest version)
    --Followed the memory timings for black edition CPU using this sticky in the AMD BIOS settings forum (http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=7688). I've also tried the DDR3-1333 settings ("Fail-safe defaults") with the same issues.
    --Swapped the 6-pin GPU power connector
    --Run ChkDsk without problems
    --Run Memtest on all 4 sticks of ram individually (in DIMM slot 1) without errors
    --Run Memtest on 3 sticks together (inserted in DIMM slots 1,3,4) without errors
    --Run Memtest on 2 sticks (inserted in DIMM slots 1,3) without errors
    --Run Prime95 "Small FFTs" for 8 hours without crash
    --Run Prime95 "Blend" for 12 hours without crash
    --Run Furmark GPU Stress Test - fullscreen, 1920x1080 4x MSAA Burn-in test for 30 minutes without crash

    Ways to force a crash:

    --Run Prime95 "Large FFTs" for 6 hours until crash
    --Playing any graphics-intensive game. Sometimes the system will crash in 20 minutes, other times in 2 hours under the same timings/voltages. Very random.
    --Tried my on-board MemOK button to auto-detect fail-safe defaults (sets my memory timings as 11-11-11-28-2T). My system froze several times in BIOS, and also while loading Windows)
    --Tried running Memtest with BIOS fail-safe defaults (everything is on auto--crashes very frequently without manually entering RAM timings)


    I've attached photos of my BIOS to help guide the process of finding the correct timings (and sharing other BIOS settings just in case).

    My computer is usually stable if I'm doing nothing but web browsing or word processing. But it has crashed several times while watching Netflix or while using Adobe Photoshop. Unfortunately I don't have a spare PSU, GPU, or other computer to swap components but am willing to RMA if possible. I'm also willing to buy new hardware if it means testing/fixing the problem.

    Sorry for the long post. Very frustrating. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. Thank you for your time.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by zmdavis; 08-26-2013, 03:29 PM.

  • #2
    Update

    Update:

    I decided I was fed up and started increasing voltages in BIOS, because I noticed that my 'CPUVCORE' value (currently set at 1.60 in BIOS) fluctuates, according to CPUID Hardware Monitor. The value changed under heavier load (monitored while playing Witcher 2). It would fluctuate from 1.52-1.58 v. And you can see that BIOS only says it's at 1.56 v despite my settings.

    Settings changed:

    HT Link Speed -- Adjusted from 2400 MHz to AUTO
    HT Voltage -- Adjusted from AUTO to 1.30 v (BIOS allows a range of 1.2-1.4 v)
    NB Voltage -- Adjusted from AUTO to 1.20 v (BIOS allows a range of 1.10-1.25 v)

    I've been playing video games for about 4 hours today, without any issues so far.. but I will keep updating.


    Should I keep my voltages like this if I don't have any problems or will it diminish my hardware or cause other problems?
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      Update #2

      The problem--system crashes (monitor goes black) and GPU fan acceleration to full speed--persists. For the past few days I've been playing a lot of The Witcher 2, and about every 4-6 hours my computer will crash. I don't continually get crashes after I hard reset, though, so I maintain that the crashing isn't a product of excessive heat in my case.


      Unresolved Issues:

      --Improper timings/voltages for stable operation
      --DIMM slot 2 in MOBO is inoperable
      --Potential long-term damage/instability to components for above-average increases in voltages remains a concern
      --Consideration of RMA'ing my MOBO

      Because my computer is "more stable" since my increased HT and NB voltages, I'm going to try underclocking my RAM following the guide (http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=7688).

      I changed my CPU-NB Frequency to 2000 MHz, my DRAM frequency to 1333 MHz, and my RAM timings to 8-8-8-24-2N
      (previous settings: CPU-NB Frequency: 2400Mhz, DRAM 1600, 9-9-9-24-2N)

      I will keep updating this thread... If anybody has any suggestions or advice, please share.

      Comment


      • #4
        Update #3

        No luck with changing my settings -- same problem. I reverted back ( CPU-NB Frequency: 2400Mhz, DRAM 1600, 9-9-9-24-2N )

        Also--today I purchased a new power supply and swapped my current one out just to rule it out... same issues occurring. So no luck there.



        I posted this information on Tom's Hardware because I haven't had a response in 5 days (sorry, a bit anxious):


        http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/...6gbrl-ram.html

        Comment


        • #5
          Below shows 2 methods

          http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=7688


          Pls offer comments on support I provide, HERE, in order to help me do a better job here:

          Tman

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, there are lots of issues here. First and foremost you should be aware that the Phenom II memory controller is only designed to run two sticks at 1333 MT/s. You can certainly try running more and faster ram than that but it is not at all guaranteed by manufacturer. But anyways, I have had near identical components as you have at one time or another so let's give this a shot.

            To start, I need you to unplug your system and only use two sticks. Your ram slots should be two different colors. Make sure they are in the same color slots.

            Next, clear CMOS, or otherwise clear all your overclock settings and return that BIOS to its default values.

            Now when you boot up, your two sticks should be running at 1066 or 1333 by default. If not, then manually drop them down to 1066, just for now.

            Run MEMTEST86+ for two complete loops. If it passes, swap these two sticks for your other two sticks. Then test these. Hopefully it's all good.

            Now install all four sticks. Boots successfully? Great. Now try running at 1333 MT/s. If it can pass a prime95 blend then next you can try 1600. You may need to manually increase voltage to the ram and the memory controller (CPU-nb). Also, to take advantage of ddr3-1600, a phenom ii must run its memory controller at 2400 MHz, so set CPU-nb appropriately.

            You lost, or are you still with me? More advanced stuff to follow if you got this far.
            AMD's Official AM3/AM2+/AM2 Performance Tuning Guide

            AMD's Official FX AM3+ Performance Tuning Guide

            Comment


            • #7
              Hello Damric, Tradesman,

              I cross-referenced my post here onto Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/...#xtor=EPR-8809)

              Now it's getting hard to update both threads because they're at different points but I'll try my best.

              Tradesman posted a couple of times on that forum, and since my last post he had me inspect my CPU for broken or bent pins. I disassembled my motherboard and all of its components, including my CPU, but found no broken or bent pins. I then cleaned up my CPU and heatsink, and replaced the CPU heatsink with a stock AMD cooler (For easier installation, figuring I'll have to RMA the motherboard soon).

              But-- I just now found your post, Damric, so I will certainly give your information a shot. I am certainly new at this (second build in about 7-8 years).

              My computer auto-detects my RAM at 1600 Mhz, but I will lower it to 1066 and run memtest per your directions (printed them off).

              I will report back with results once I've finished fulfilling your directions. Although I doubt my second DIMM slot will work.

              Still I will test it all again. Thanks for the help.

              Comment


              • #8
                The dimm slot could be faulty, but it is quite rare.

                My instructions should isolate a faulty dimm as well as a faulty slot, before we get into memory controller limitations. Keep us updated.

                Edit: I read through your symptoms again and looked at your bios screenshot. In CPU-Z does it say revision C2 or C3? I saw your CPU voltage in bios was 1.6v which is pretty high unless you are doing some serious over clocking. But also looked at your CPU-nb voltage, and you still have some good room to play with that. If I recall, I used to run my 955 with 1.425 CPU-nb for 2800MHz, but up to 1.5v is plenty safe under normal cooling. Also I like to juice the chipset north bridge to about 1.3v.
                Last edited by damric; 09-02-2013, 07:34 PM.
                AMD's Official AM3/AM2+/AM2 Performance Tuning Guide

                AMD's Official FX AM3+ Performance Tuning Guide

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by damric View Post
                  The dimm slot could be faulty, but it is quite rare.

                  My instructions should isolate a faulty dimm as well as a faulty slot, before we get into memory controller limitations. Keep us updated.

                  Edit: I read through your symptoms again and looked at your bios screenshot. In CPU-Z does it say revision C2 or C3? I saw your CPU voltage in bios was 1.6v which is pretty high unless you are doing some serious over clocking. But also looked at your CPU-nb voltage, and you still have some good room to play with that. If I recall, I used to run my 955 with 1.425 CPU-nb for 2800MHz, but up to 1.5v is plenty safe under normal cooling. Also I like to juice the chipset north bridge to about 1.3v.

                  My CPU is revision 'RB-C3' in CPU-Z.

                  Yeah my voltages are definitely off-- trial and error for me. I get nervous when the voltage lettering goes from cool blue to fiery red as if BIOS is telling me DANGER YOU'RE GOING TO MELT EVERYTHING STOP NOW.

                  Per your directions I installed 2 pieces of ram in slot 1 and slot 3 (color matching) and ran Memtest for 2 passes at 1066mhz (this is the only setting I changed, after setting fail-safe defaults in BIOS) without any issues or errors. I then swapped out those two sticks for the other sticks, and ran Memtest for another 2 passes without any errors or problems.

                  I then installed all 4 sticks and couldn't boot. MemOk light was flashing, so I held the button down to see if it would automatically find settings and POST, but no luck there.

                  Only after removing a piece of memory from DIMM slot 2 did it boot. So yeah, I'm pretty confident that slot is fried or broken or somehow dead.

                  At this point, I just want a stable computer. I'm willing to drop down to 1333 and 8GB.
                  __

                  On another note-- how did you know that my CPU is only designed to run 2 sticks at 1333? I could find no "official" information on this while looking up my CPU on the AMD support site, nor in any of the details on Newegg. I just wanted to know for the future, because I obviously made a mistake in purchasing 16gb of 1600mhz ram.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Also to add: I ran the 12gb of RAM that would boot using 1333 settings in Prime95. My computer made it 6 hours before it crashed.

                    Since then I've remove the stick from the fourth DIMM slot, so that there is a stick of RAM in slot 1 and 3 and altered a few other settings:

                    DRAM Frequency [1333MHz]
                    CPU/NB Frequency [2000MHz]
                    HT Link Speed [2000 MHz]
                    DRAM Timing [9] [9] [9] [24]
                    CPU Voltage [1.525]
                    CPU/NB Voltage [1.25]

                    I adjusted the CPU voltage to 1.525 because at 1.50 my bios was reading it as 1.475. So now at 1.525 volts, my BIOS reads it as '1.50 volts', if that makes sense.

                    I will run prime 95 blend and see if it crashes

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Good luck on the mobo Rma.

                      http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...omparison.aspx

                      When you get your new one, stop by here so we can get you tuned up.
                      AMD's Official AM3/AM2+/AM2 Performance Tuning Guide

                      AMD's Official FX AM3+ Performance Tuning Guide

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My computer crashed with the most recent settings after only 4 hours on blend mode, so, yeah--I'll see what happens once I RMA the motherboard.

                        I checked out your link. I see that it says:

                        "Type of Memory Supported Support for unregistered DIMMs up to PC2 8500(DDR2-1066MHz) and PC3 10600 (DDR3-1333MHz)"

                        But where does it say that only 2 sticks of RAM are supported? That I could not find.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's buried somewhere, but that was the first thing google brought up. Basically AMD only makes promise on 1333 2x2GB, but obviously you can go for more and faster with some unofficial tweaking. For the C3 chips, they usually max out at 2x2GB at 1600 with cl6 (really fast), but more GBs strains the IMC more, so you make some trade-offs with latency/speed when adding more. One nice thing is that CPU-nb overclock scales really well on phenom ii, greatly reducing latency, even if you have mediocre timings.
                          AMD's Official AM3/AM2+/AM2 Performance Tuning Guide

                          AMD's Official FX AM3+ Performance Tuning Guide

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "One DIMM per channel", in other words, dual channel 4 slot motherboards should only use two modules.

                            Thank you
                            GSKILL TECH

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Update:

                              I received the same model motherboard (different serial number, so i assume new or refurbished) back from Asus. They sent absolutely no correspondence beyond a tracking number, however, so I have no idea if they identified the problem, or just replaced the board.

                              Yesterday I put my system back together and booted successfully (using one DIMM per channel).

                              I followed the forum sticky for setting my RAM at 1600mhz here:
                              http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=7688

                              Restarts/Crashes/same exact issues.

                              After some digging, I found an article discussing in further detail the limitations of my Phenom II 965 processor: http://www.techpowerup.com/84955/phe...333-issue.html

                              The article also shows that the CPU only supports up to 1333 MHz RAM, so I underclocked my timings to:

                              DRAM Frequency [1333MHz]
                              CPU/NB Frequency [2000MHz]
                              HT Link Speed [2000 MHz]
                              DRAM Timing [8] [8] [8] [24]
                              CPU Voltage [1.50]
                              DRAM Voltage [1.50]
                              CPU/NB Voltage [1.20]

                              Still pretty unstable. Crashes frequently.

                              I reinstalled Windows 7 64-bit but kept getting random system crashes while downloading Windows updates.

                              __

                              If anybody has any suggestions to settings, or if I'm using incorrect timings please let me know.

                              __

                              In the meantime, I ordered a brand new motherboard from Newegg which actually includes my memory kit on its qualified vendor's list:
                              http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131877

                              I should receive it by this weekend, where I can put it together and share my results.

                              -Zachary

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X