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  • TRIM works only with Microsoft drivers?

    anyone know if automatic TRIM only works with Microsoft's built in AHCI drivers?...I am currently using the Intel Chipset drivers (9.1.1.1025) which uses its own AHCI drivers but I read someplace that TRIM is not supported through this method...anyone know if this is true or not?...when I type the "fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify" command line it tells me that TRIM is enabled (even when using Intel AHCI)...but now I'm worried that this might only show that TRIM is enabled but not that it's actually working

    anyone know anything about this?
    Last edited by Titus; 01-23-2010, 09:45 PM.

  • #2
    I just put the 1819 firmware on my drives and Trim or Garbage Collection is working in Raid0 I have Win7 64bit, and the drivers are microsoft from the Win7 install. Just run a bench test and note the results then log off for a hour and then run the bench again, if it is working you should see improvement in the score.
    Last edited by Griffyj; 01-24-2010, 01:27 PM.

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    • #3
      TRIM is still not working under RAID configuration! TRIM works only with native Microsoft drivers and single SSD under Windows 7!

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      • #4
        guess I'm going to have to remove my Intel AHCI driver...

        Originally posted by Griffyj View Post
        I just put the 1819 firmware on my drives and Trim or Garbage Collection is working in Raid0 I have Win7 64bit, and the drivers are microsoft from the Win7 install. Just run a bench test and note the results then log off for a hour and then run the bench again, if it is working you should see improvement in the score.
        what made you finally decide to try FW 1819?...you held out for a long time...I thought you were going to try OCZ's FW

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Titus View Post
          guess I'm going to have to remove my Intel AHCI driver...



          what made you finally decide to try FW 1819?...you held out for a long time...I thought you were going to try OCZ's FW

          I thought I would try the FW 1819 first and see what happened. I get slightly lower bench with the 1819 but not enough to worry about. I do not have any where to host a screen shot of the benches or I would submit them. I guess they must have GC in the firmware, as I did a bench shortly after installing the firmware and then logged off for about hour and a half then did another and it was much better thats why the other post said either Trim or GC was working.
          Last edited by Griffyj; 01-24-2010, 04:53 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Griffyj View Post
            I thought I would try the FW 1819 first and see what happened. I get slightly lower bench with the 1819 but not enough to worry about. I do not have any where to host a screen shot of the benches or I would submit them. I guess they must have GC in the firmware, as I did a bench shortly after installing the firmware and then logged off for about hour and a half then did another and it was much better thats why the other post said either Trim or GC was working.
            you can use imageshack to host the images

            so you have to be logged off in order for GC/TRIM to work?...what if I just leave my computer idle or turn it off for an hour or so?
            Last edited by Titus; 01-24-2010, 05:21 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Titus View Post
              you can use imageshack to host the images

              so you have to be logged off in order for GC/TRIM to work?...what if I just leave my computer idle or turn it off for an hour or so?
              Logged in or not: it has to do with the system being idle.

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              • #8
                It seems that GC works better if you are logged out of all accounts. You can see the results of letting the computer idle in this link.

                Link removed.
                Last edited by Griffyj; 01-25-2010, 07:09 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Griffyj View Post
                  It seems that GC works better if you are logged out of all accounts. You can see the results of letting the computer idle in this link.

                  http://yfrog.com/0xcapture2etj
                  Thanks for passing that on. I was curios as to exactly what you had to do to force it to garbage collect. At least on my machine just letting my computer sit seems to still cause the c drive to do something every now and then even though I have the uusal culprits of superfetch and indexing switched off. Good to know logging off is enough to fire off the garbage collection.

                  Thanks
                  Bill

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                  • #10
                    I have flashed back to firmware 1571 as the performance of 1819 today is very dismal, it has dropped to half of what I had posted yesterday. It leaves me to believe that GC or Trim is not working.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Griffyj View Post
                      I have flashed back to firmware 1571 as the performance of 1819 today is very dismal, it has dropped to half of what I had posted yesterday. It leaves me to believe that GC or Trim is not working.
                      Actually I think it could be the other way around. I have been going though Anandtechs excellent article on SSD's.:
                      http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631&p=1

                      It turns out that while trim does not solve the slowdown with use problem (it simply delays it) some drives have more to gain from it than others in real world terms. Drives built on Indilinx controller like the Falcon suffer virtually no real world performance drop (only something negligible like 8%) when full. That means stuff like trim and garbage collection, which of course would probably slow performance down, are not much use on the Falcon. Undoubtedly that is why the store that fitted my dives in raid advised me to simply leave it alone and don't bother upgrading.

                      I may consider upgrading to 1916 when it comes out and is proven, as evidently it comes it two variants - one that supports trim and one that does garbage collection. I may go for the garbage collection one since trim is not of that much value for the Falcon and wont work in raid anyway.

                      Thanks
                      Bill
                      Last edited by bhobba; 01-25-2010, 08:10 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bhobba View Post
                        I may go for the garbage collection one since trim is not of that much value for the Falcon and wont work in raid anyway.
                        I don't know about that...whenever I manually run the Wiper program on my single SSD my benchmark numbers increase again...so if the manual TRIM works I'm sure the automatic one should work as well

                        although I've used Diskpart and erased my drive a lot and reinstalled everything and I've never really noticed a major performance drop with my drive...performance always seems to stay at its peak or close to it

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Titus View Post
                          I don't know about that...whenever I manually run the Wiper program on my single SSD my benchmark numbers increase again...so if the manual TRIM works I'm sure the automatic one should work as well

                          although I've used Diskpart and erased my drive a lot and reinstalled everything and I've never really noticed a major performance drop with my drive...performance always seems to stay at its peak or close to it
                          Sorry for not making myself clear. I was thinking in terms of the sophistication of the process you can implement in limited firmware. Doing both trim and garbage collection obviously requires more code than one or the other. I am hoping by concentrating on just one it can be made more efficient. Trim and running wiper every now and then has exactly the same consequence as garbage collection. Except of course with trim and wiper you (and the operating system) decide when to do it, and it does not happen all the time. Probably better for the drives that way and with trim you don't need to do it as often anyway.

                          And yes I have no doubt in real world terms, especially if you have raid like I do, it will make very little difference. Its just that guy like me and probably you as well like to ensure its in tip top shape. That's why we are enthusiasts.

                          Thanks
                          Bill

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bhobba View Post
                            And yes I have no doubt in real world terms, especially if you have raid like I do, it will make very little difference. Its just that guy like me and probably you as well like to ensure its in tip top shape. That's why we are enthusiasts.

                            Thanks
                            Bill

                            This was why I flashed the firmware, I like to be able to keep the system running in tip top shape.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bhobba View Post
                              Drives built on Indilinx controller like the Falcon suffer virtually no real world performance drop (only something negligible like 8%) when full.
                              that is interesting...I've never actually filled my SSD to capacity or even within 20% capacity but I'm hoping this to be the case...I've had my Falcon 1 for months now and my benchmark scores fluctuate only by small percentage points even after prolonged heavy use

                              I only wish there was a better way of determining whether TRIM is working or not...I tried deleting large files, leaving my system idle, logging off etc and still have no idea if TRIM is working or not as my benchmark scores don't really move

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